Pat Greco: The biggest advice that I would give my younger self is people first, really stay close to the people closest to the work, and grow people.

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Introduction

Mary Stackhouse-Consoli: Hey everyone, welcome to the Accelerate Your Performance podcast, where leaders gather to learn actionable strategies to elevate their leadership practices. I’m Mary Stackhouse-Consoli. I’m a producer of the show.

Today we’ll dive into part two of our conversation with Studer Education’s Managing Director and Executive Leader, Dr. Janet Pilcher, and Senior Director of Thought Leadership, Dr. Pat Greco. If you missed part one, you’ll want to go back and take a listen. There’s a link to that episode in the show resources.

Before we jump in, I’d like to invite you to join us along with high performing leaders across the country at our What’s Right in Education conference. You’ll hear directly from Pat and other dynamic speakers and walk away with practical tactics to implement immediately. It’ll be held October 22nd through the 24th in Westminster, Colorado. Head over to studereducation.com/wrie to meet the speakers, view the agenda, and register. Discounted pricing is available through July 31st.

Now let’s dive into the show. Listen as Janet and Pat reflect on the toughest leadership problems they’ve faced, what they’d do differently if they could go back in time, and why being people first is so critical to developing strong teams.

Interview

Janet Pilcher: As you think about your life and the profession, what’s been one of the most difficult times? What are the difficult times that you’ve experienced?

Pat Greco: Yeah, I was thinking about that, Janet. I think there are critical incidents that every leader experiences, and really hard ones. You know, ones where a death of a student, death of family members, death of team members, really, team members that make decisions that go sideways and don’t reflect the organization. I could pick any one incident because every leader has those critical incidences that are challenging. But I think the piece that’s hard is in the moment, making sure that you’re pausing long enough to capture the right messages so that people don’t lose faith in the organization.

You know, it kind of goes back to that, you know, we can tackle any critical incident if we stay at the core of, we’re going to scaffold communication well, we’re going to make sure that everyone close to the challenge has the right information at the right time. And to be able to provide that ability even when things go sideways, that you’re treating people with respect, even if they in turn were the individuals that made the sideways choices.

Janet Pilcher: Yes, yes. You know, I think that’s probably, that’s in the space where I would, I don’t think there’s any doubt for me, um, anytime that I have to make a decision that impacts somebody else’s life. I mean, I don’t think there’s any question, like I can remember every one of those decisions, you know, I can remember what it felt like. And although then you know that some of those difficult decisions when you are exiting people out of an organization, for example, or really giving them critical information that impacts their life in some way, that’s difficult.

Pat Greco: Mmmhmm.

Janet Pilcher: And I mean, that’s memorable in that difficult way, but it’s, you know, I don’t know how you feel about this, Pat. But one of the things I think builds maturity and leadership is, I think about, you know, people who come into a high level position, and they’ve never been a position where they’ve had to hire and fire people—

Pat Greco: Mmmhmm. Yep.

Janet Pilcher: —so to speak. And I’m like, it’s very difficult to me to be, to be at that level of maturity in your leadership if you’ve never had to do that because you learn so much about yourself, and how you position yourself as a person, and how you stay true to your values in that process. That’s where the rubber meets the road in that, in that regard.

Pat Greco: And when you think about impact that you’re going to have on an organization, you know, the, you know, staying aligned with, with your values, the organization’s needs, you know, the team members’ needs, you know, and oftentimes if an individual—

Janet Pilcher: Yes.

Pat Greco: —is struggling on a team, they’re really waking up every day not happy doing the work that they’re doing. Even though it’s hard for them to make a transition, it’s a gift all the way around. You know, it’s just how do you actually create that smooth transition as smooth as you can—

Janet Pilcher: Yes.

Pat Greco: —you know, for the individuals that are struggling and for the team members who are affected by, you know, individuals who are struggling.

Janet Pilcher: That’s right. Yeah, and there’s no doubt, as you’re saying, there’s no doubt that when you—

Pat Greco: Right.

Janet Pilcher: —when we get to that point of making difficult decisions like that, we know we’ve done the right thing, you know, just difficult to do.

So if, you know, let’s lighten it up just a bit. If you could give your younger leader self some advice, you know, what would it be?

Pat Greco: I think one of the things that I learned most, Janet, and, you know, when early in your career, you’re tapped on the shoulder because of that core work ethic, you work really hard, you get the job done, you know, you’re creating capacity by getting work done.

One of the things that I think was almost a transition for me was it’s beyond getting jobs done and figuring out it really is about people first. You know, you have to build, it’s easy to do tasks alone, you know, but you’re not going to build the capability of the team just getting the tasks done.

You know, so the biggest advice I would give is it really is investing in your people first. You know, it’s an oversimplification when we think about, you know, rounding. Rounding is like rocket fuel, you know, because you’re really able to build relationships, you’re able to listen to the people closest to the work, you’re able to understand where people are stuck so that you can help them interpersonally, you know, and personally, and then, you know, really get to the heart of what’s going well and what’s a challenge within a team.

So the biggest advice that I would give my younger self is: people first, really stay close to the people closest to the work and grow people, you know, because you grow people at every level and it builds a level of commitment that you’re not worried about buy in.

You know, when you grow the capacity of the team, people are committed to really what you’re really trying to aim at, you know, so it’s not about taking a vote. You’re really building that commitment over time because they see that line of sight, you know, so the biggest advice I’d give to my earliest, earlier self is people first and grow your people.

Janet Pilcher: Yeah, gosh, Pat, and that’s, you know, at the end of the day, I mean, that’s core to the leadership, I mean, core to really being a great leader. I mean, and thinking back, if we knew, for me, I won’t speak for you, but if I knew then what I know now, you know, that advice—

Pat Greco: Yep.

Janet Pilcher: —would have been, would have been well received.

Pat Greco: Yeah, I would have been, yeah, I would have been a stronger teacher. It’s kind of like every time you transition, you look backwards and say, “ooh, I would have done that differently,” because you’re seeing it from a different perspective.

And obviously, you know, that wisdom develops over the course of time. And like you, I always felt I was student centered. I always felt I was committed leader, you know, but the perspective you gain by getting really into, you know, the development of others and really the development of teams and the energy it brings.

I was sitting with a team a couple of weeks ago, and they were proud of the fact that they created a 463% improvement. And I said, “okay, now pause.” You know, it’s, you would never set a goal for 400% improvement.

Janet Pilcher: [laughs]

Pat Greco: Right.

Janet Pilcher: Yeah.

Pat Greco: But when you, when you tease through what’s causing the challenge, how do we remove the barriers, how do we actually improve the processes, you’re going to accelerate gains like no one would anticipate. And the energy in that room was high. You know, because it was really that ability for that team to reflect, “we did this, and we did it together. It wasn’t I did this or you did this. It’s we did this together.” And it was really that shift of those bright spots brought energy to the entire room because it was really clear that we can, we can solve for anything.

Janet Pilcher: Yeah, gosh, that’s not just hitting that measure, but just having that deeper conversation and understanding of what we did and how that really impacted what we do and how we go back and do that again.

Pat Greco: Yeah.

Janet Pilcher: How do we continue to repeat that?

Pat Greco: Yeah, And that’s one of the things, Janet, I often will refer back to some of the Deming quotes, but Deming was kind of anti goal-setting. You know, because he almost said, with a number, you always have an aim but with a number he said, because if you make a 3% gain and you could have made a 25% gain, it’s a false sense of, you know, check we did it as opposed to really getting under root cause and solving the process challenges that’ll blow the top off of it.

You know, so, so that’s really that gift of when we get underneath really understanding what’s causing barriers and root cause, we can actually flip the switch and accelerate progress in a way that 2% improvement can’t do, you know, in 20 years.

Janet Pilcher: Yeah. Yeah, so good. Part of what I think about too, Pat is, you know, as we go back in time, I think both of us, relatively young in the leadership, right,

Pat Greco: Mmmhmm.

Janet Pilcher: I mean we moved into leadership pretty young, had an opportunity in my mid 30s to take on some pretty, pretty heavy leadership roles and, you know, I think about myself and I think about at that age, I don’t know about you, but I thought I was invincible, you know, I could do any, just about anything I wanted to do. And as you’re talking about Deming and the processes and, and looking at the goals in a particular way and really reflecting on what we’re doing and how we’re achieving them and getting that feedback to improve, that’s discipline in that.

When I was thinking about, like, if I could go back in time knowing what I know now if I could still have that feeling of being invincible because, you know, I wish I had a little bit more of that now because that was kind of kind of good to have but with practicing the discipline.

I mean, is there a way, and I’ve often thought about that from leadership, is there a way that we can integrate those two because it’s really powerful, you know, to be able to do that and I think if I could, you know, if I could go back in time and have the level of maturity which never would have happened, but just combining those two things together and just being a little bit more mature in that process.

Pat Greco: I think, I think also Janet, it’s just sheer energy. Well, because obviously—

Janet Pilcher: [laughs]

Pat Greco: You know, the, you know, earlier in our career, our energy level, you know, for the 12, 15 hour, 17 hour days, the reality of it is, is that isn’t balance. You know, so the, you know, so the, you know, the reality of it is, is we actually have to figure out how do we channel the energy of many, you know, so that we aren’t skewing to the point of it’s unsustainable. You know, so yeah—

Janet Pilcher: That’s right.

Pat Greco: —that piece of it. You know, but if I could bottle a little bit of that, you know, early in my career energy—

Janet Pilcher: [laughs] Yeah.

Pat Greco: I’d take that any day.

Janet Pilcher: Wouldn’t you, you know? And I think, you know, as we end today, we’ll just kind of end in the same area. If we could travel, you know, time travel redo, you know, what would we, what would we do differently? You know, I don’t, it’s a little bit of a different question, but in the same vein, but, what are your thoughts there, Pat?

Pat Greco: I think one of the things, and this is more about the K12 field, but it really is influenced by education in the higher ed field. I think if we could change one thing about our field, it would be really to avoid that notion of the packaging of initiatives.

You know, we both started in our careers in the early 80s of going into, you know, we talk about differentiation of instruction, PBIS, MTSS. It’s the same body of research that underpins each of those, but we package it in a way that is inaccessible for people to understand the strategies that really work. And it’s endemic in our field.

You know, so we think about things in five-year packages under a label as opposed to really understanding the core strategies that matter most to engage kids, to engage team members. You know, so that’s really where, if I had to start my career over again, I would really focus on not the packaged initiative, but really the core strategies that are most impactful to move performance of teams of individuals for children, and then really stranding those conversations so that people understand, you know, the why, what, and how of the work and really build in that capability early on in the teams.

So if I were starting over again, which would be a scary thought, you know—

Janet Pilcher: [laughs]

Pat Greco: —but, you know, that actually is one of the areas I would work hard to avoid.

Janet Pilcher: Yeah, it is a scary thought. You know, when you think back, all the things that you know now, and then if we could apply them, we wouldn’t be near what we are today without going through some of the learnings and the experiences and having to learn some things the hard way.

Last year when I had back surgery, it’s a real shift, and I know you’ve gone through some surgeries as well, but it’s a real shift in thinking because, you know, although my back’s fine and I can do most anything, there are just some things I should not do, right? You know, like I used to, and that’s kind of that feeling of I’ve always felt a little invincible in most every aspect of my life, and it’s the reality that you can’t, right? There are certain things that you can’t do.

And so one of the things I think about in my life is going back to deep down what I always wanted to be, which, you know, I’m sure most people who are athletic do, was a professional athlete, you know, and you always have that understanding. I’m making a point here, but you always have that understanding that there’s a possibility of that.

And so when I had my back surgery, although at this age, there was never a possibility of that. But when I had my back surgery, it ended that. It ended that, that, that potential of a dream of that. I just transferred that to my life in terms of leadership to really ground myself and to say, when I go back in time, there’s no way we at a younger age, we can ground ourselves, but in some day, we will be grounded. And when we’re grounded, our life has been defined in a way that we take it to where we’re going to go. But we’re looking at the end versus the beginning.

Pat Greco: Yeah.

Janet Pilcher: We’re looking at what’s ahead. And so I just, you know, anything that we’re looking at when we go forward, when I look at the youth and younger people of today, it’s what you were just saying, everything that we have done in the past will truly make an impact to who we become in the future, right? And what we do and how we make those decisions, Pat. And that is deeper and more powerful to me now, you know, than it’s ever been.

So I want to go back to end with what you gave as such great advice. There’s nothing more important than the people that we work with each unit of every day and help them grow and develop and become the best that they can be.

Pat Greco: And that in and of itself is the greatest capability we can have in any organization is get really clear, you know, with that sense of vision and grow people deeply at every level of in everything.

Janet Pilcher: And what it does is it builds our heart and it builds our minds and touches us at the depth of our soul. And you know, I’ve had that opportunity to work with you in that way. I’ve had that opportunity to be a partner in the process of leadership and in friendship, and I just really appreciated this time together with you. It’s a lot of fun just talking about our life path and and what it means and the leadership part that’s so many—

Pat Greco: Janet, you’ve been a great coach to me personally and a great friend. So I always enjoy the time together.

Janet Pilcher: Thank you.

Conclusion

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Mary Stackhouse-Consoli: I hope you found Janet and Pat’s insights into their personal and professional growth inspiring. Their experiences offered valuable lessons for leaders at any stage in their careers.

Please join us next week as we catch up with Dr. Kraig Sproles, Superintendent of Bethel School District in Eugene, Oregon. Like Janet and Pat, Craig will share how his background in teaching influences his mission and purpose as a leader today. Have a great week.